If you dont like it, too bad. 2) Its also not advisable as someone who professes to be a Christian and follow Christ to swear. point taken). And what is your position, from Scripture, on the subject? I will always call that out, and I refuse to be intimidated or bullied by those who just cry foul or moan about not being nice. Use the Church Finder to locate churches with TMS alumni around the world. Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do. Furtick though is unapologetic..he boasted in a sermon all the proceeds go to feed hungry children..mine!. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BN1lStbIw. I think putting Chandler in the same category as Furtick is disgraceful and totally unwarranted and thus simply ask G White to justify that. 4) Yes my point about the megachurches was that they were not per se bad. That would indeed be ridiculous, but it is not my position and it is therefore wrong of you to argue as though it were. . To this end he cites the biblical passage of 1 Timothy 2:11-12. [52], Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California, Independent Fundamental Churches of America, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "Theology and Ministry: An Interview with John MacArthur", "1998 Gold Medallion Book Awards Winners", "Voice of Calvary Legacy - The Legacy - Page 3", "When should a Christian fight for his country? What am I gonna do? Cho discovered that Grace Community Church advised women to stay in abusive relationships and worked to have the church apologize for past mistakes. One expression of faith creates refugees; the other resettles them. Some might expect be to be critical of the entertainment Hillsong style worship and the whole professional stage go that goes along with it. Market data provided by Factset. From 20052015, MacArthur made about $3.4 million in compensation from GTY and TMUS, for an average of about $320,000/year. Pastor / Teacher. But anyone who writes on my blog and brings such serious accusations is going to have to provide evidence, and you will be challenged. The Church of England's compromise on same-sex relationships is disastrous for everyone. John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. To be really honest, I find it very difficult to muster up any Christian love for you when you respond to people in this way, though I do recognise that this is something I need Gods help with and forgiveness for. I am intrigued as to why you think my challenge to the claim is disgraceful and totally unwarranted, but you dont think the claim itself is? Excellent post David. Cho resigned the next day. Can we in the UK stop copying these kind of churches? I have reread the comments by G Whiteand my own responses. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. An unknown man clad in black confronted Grace Community Church pastor John MacArthur during service on Sunday, Aug. av. Their influence has been growing and recently . And if you want to learn of the dangers of this movement I would recommend that you read The New Calvinists: Changing The Gospel by E S Williams. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. He picked out three words from Joshua 10, 12 (Sun stand still) and turned them into a doctrine, and he peppered his performance with occasional biblical quotes to back it up. Please dont feel sad that someone disagrees with you. Im sure you realise that that also would doubtless apply to people from The Village and even Furticks church. 1) There is only One only speaks the truth and it aint Steven Furtick. [45] His major contention was that there was no justification for closing down churches over a disease with 94% survival rate according to misinterpreted data from the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Im afraid your post is a classic example of taking a bible verse out of context and using it, whether ignorantly or deliberately to defend sin. Your other remarks continue to be provocative, misleading and snide and I wont grace them with a reply, other than to say that I have no need to retract any of my remarks, for the reasons already explained to you. He did not say Timothy Keller is an anti-Christian preacher. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book I hope it is not a waste of good time! And after 63 years of sacrificial kindness to our city, to be repeatedly threatened with court-ordered efforts to shut Grace Community Church down when no one is sick reveals an inexplicable preference for a mostly harmless virus over the life-enriching and necessary fellowship of the church., As for MacArthurs own battle against COVID-19, the 82-year-old pastor was absent from the pulpit on Dec. 27, 2020. including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. ", MacArthur is married to his wife, Patricia. Its not the unadulterated Word of God for our generation. Ward's father, John Tucker, was also a member of the church who had been informed . Name me one church that has handled everything well. (Note the attempted injection of humour!). And there are some well-liked denominations and networks of churches on Facebook pages too: john macarthur on elevation church. There is nothing more basic than these. People make millions selling sex, playing sports and funny you never hear the news say that is wrong. Wendy Guay's friend, Lisa Ward, was a witness to an attempted abuse by Paul against herself and his own daughter back in 1979. Thank you for your answer re the mega church your reason for mentioning Dallas Baptist Church favourably is because you know a young man who did some good mission work. Oh and sorry about the ironic and sarky remark about being mature enough for you! And lets talk about finance. Given that is neither what I wrote, nor what I think. "[26] He has a complementarian view on gender roles and considers that the Bible forbids women to preach to men or to exercise authority over men in churches, and he believes that the Biblical roles of elder and pastor are restricted to men. It is a serious breach of the ninth commandment to defame someone in this manner. (John MacArthur). The challenge (as you have already pointed out) is to warn and admonish from a place of love, and of course to pray. So Mike Riccardi is going to be answering the call," a Grace Community Church elder announced on Sunday, according to Christian website Protestia. I dont know enough about Elevation to make that kind of judgment, but there are warning signs. The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. [51] They have four children, fifteen grandchildren, and had two great-grandsons by 2017. Why would you equate Chandler with Furtick, but First is ok? Terribly, the younger folks dont appear to have the foundation in the word to smell it out. God is everywhereeven in the news. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. And this is my prayerful response (after sleeping on it!) Purpose doesnt have a parking spot is no substitute for many are the plans in a mans heart but it is the Lords purpose that prevails. The preacher's admission came amid news that Grace Community Church in Sun Valley received an $800,000 settlement from Los Angeles County after defying pandemic-induced health orders. And now I have to go and read his recommended book I hope its not as bad as the reviews suggest! Didnt appreciate the joking about drug use. I will reply to them briefly. I would ask you to withdraw your remarks about legalism.posting serious allegations.refusing to substantiate them if you are in any way suggesting that I am such a person. But, thank God, I have been able to study the bible for 50 years and, although I acknowledge that I have probably only scratched the surface of the riches of His grace, I do not recognise Furticks message as balanced and biblical. Are you happy with its $130 million campus rebuilding campaign? You rightly speak out against the Scott McKennas of this world but you seem to have a blind spot where certain pastors are concerned. When people are being led astray genuine believers must stand up challenge and expose. Could you tell me the difference? MacArthur, 83, was preaching Sunday service earlier this week when he. Cameron Buettel, Grace To You, Hillsong, Jeremiah Johnson, music, worship. Well, given that many years ago I encouraged one of our young people to complete his studies at Spurgeons College and accept an internship at First Dallas Baptist, it would have to be that one. Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! See what mine own hands have wrought. My own view is that he didnt handle it particularly well even when forced to act. I didnt even mention Chandler in my comment, let alone call him a false teacher (and have never done so). I did read your comments. His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. All rights reserved. How John MacArthur loves the Bible but not his neighbor. I made no comment on how Matt Chandler lives as a Christian.you didyou declared I was somewhat alarmed by the endorsement of Matt Chandler as a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived.. In case you missed the news, Christianity Today is reporting on a pattern of spiritual abuse on John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. 2) I challenge you to provide some evidence for that statement and question whether you were just against mega churches per se. . From 1964 to 1966, MacArthur was hired by his father as associate pastor at the Harry MacArthur Memorial Bible Church (now Calvary Bible Church in Burbank, California), which his father Jack had planted and named after his own father. Earlier this year his church was embroiled in a scandal over their handling of a child sexual abuse case. John MacArthur is wrong about so much more than keeping women in abusive marriages. Im not rich at all but Im also not jealous of someone who has far more people and more money. This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. Thats hypocrisy, and no, that doesnt constitute name calling. The remarks immediately following that statement seem to suggest that you are and illustrate the way in which you denigrate those with whom you disagree. From an economic standpoint, thats a no brainer. [12], MacArthur's daily radio and television program, Grace to You, now broadcast throughout much of the world, was created by the Grace media team to publicize audio cassettes of sermons; in 1977, it was first broadcast in Baltimore, Maryland. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. Im sorry, but I didnt state that I had written to you in love, though I did try very hard to temper my comment to you. LOS ANGELES PASTOR JOHN MACARTHUR PUBLICLY REBUKES GAVIN NEWSOM FOR 'DIABOLICAL' POLICIES, INVOKING JESUS, Pastor John MacArthur preaches at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. Regards. In fact it was so bad most people assumed it was just mockers cutting and pasting to make it look ridiculous yet it turns out that this was Elevation Churches own video and it was liked by Furtick! Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. And it's thewe call it the Shepherd's Testament; it has a little shepherd's rod on the front. Whether you are a legalist or not I dont know. The Amazon website only has E S Williams book on sale as 30:08.! Please do not excuse sin and blasphemy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vvjMUrPUfC4&app=desktop. By the way I got your recommended book. [4], The grandson of Canadian Anglican minister Harry MacArthur (died 1950) and son of Baptist radio preacher Jack MacArthur (born in Calgary, Canada)[5] and Irene Dockendorf, MacArthur was born in Los Angeles. Your replies to G White were disgraceful and totally unwarranted, particularly in light of the respectful way he/she raised a perfectly justifiable concern. It is still priced as such on my Amazon feed.thankfully someone pointed me to another link which I have now used to buy the book for a couple of pounds on Kindle. ON the other hand you seem to be very quick to hand out your tongue lashing arrogance and childishness. to this article here https://theweeflea.com/2020/04/22/return-to-elevation/). I dont do stock answers. Dear David, Yes, some of it is biblical and Furtick is a good communicator, amusing, connected etc.but a great deal appears to pay only passing lip service to the Bible. lq mk Im sure with a church of such a size these issues are found amongst some, and appropriate discipline and loving correction are needed. If theyre charities (and I suspect many of them will be) then theyre monitored by OSCR, and will have to submit yearly, independently audited, accounts. (function(d){var f = d.getElementsByTagName('SCRIPT')[0], p = d.createElement('SCRIPT');p.type = 'text/javascript';p.async = true;p.src = '//widgets.wp.com/platform.js';f.parentNode.insertBefore(p,f);}(document)); on Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. Finally that book! In 1989, after some criticism, he defended his views in a plenary session of the annual convention of the Independent Fundamental Churches of America (IFCA). A decade later, he announced he had retracted this view via an article from Grace to You. Lets put it this way- if you are buying a $1.8 million home you aint exactly of the take no purse school of ministry! False teachers and those who allow the Word of God to be compromised are like a cancer in the church; some who preach flat out heresy are like the aggressive cancer and are easy to spot quickly but others who compromise a bit here and turn a blind eye there are akin to the slow growing tumour thats often not picked up until great damage is done. 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. You can either keep silent, go of to somewhere else who will accept your gossip, or repent.obviously I would prefer the latter! This following sermon was full of what can only be called psychobabble. John MacArthur Takes on the New Apostolic Reformation & Rick Perry's Prayer Event This is a portion of the transcript from John MacArthur's sermon from October 23, 2011 . We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. Why is that disgraceful and totally unwarranted? There are doubtless many things wrong with Chandler (hes a Baptist for a start!) A prominent elder at John MacArthur's Grace Community Church (GCC) has resigned, stating in email leaked to The Roys Report that his "conscience and convictions" were not aligned with other GCC elders. They do things right. PS Im a huge Chandler fan over here. I Gotta Reply This Is So Pathetic, First Of All As A Leader In Christ Steven Furtrick Is A Good Pastor And If You Really Heard His Message ,He Is A Man Of God And He Only Speaks The Truth You That Are Workers Of Iniquity Be Sure That Youre Sins Will Find You Out Second Of All How In The Hell You Gonna Sit Here And Judge A Man Of God ..I Believe God Called This Man To Build His ( God) House And Get The population Ready For Whats About To ComeAnd Its Far More Then Noah And A Flood.If There Were Many Pastors Like Steven Furtrick In This World There Wouldnt Be So Much Hate And Crime And Killing Drugs Etc News People Why Dont You Start Digging In The People That Are Really committing crimes Stop Digging In Something You Know Nothing About Cause If You Really Knew How God Works . 'Changed My Whole Entire Being': Ex-Strip Club Owner Born Again, Now Works to Help Victims of Sex Trafficking, US Cracks Down, Bans TikTok on All Federal Phones. [3] MacArthur has written or edited more than 150 books, most notably the MacArthur Study Bible, which has sold more than one million copies, receiving a Gold Medallion Book Award. The incident referred to was a very serious matter and Christian publications in th USA documented the churchs mishandling of it, which was why I had urged caution. Elevation Church's revival is seeing some theological controversy. I love the gospel, and I love the Lords people from whatever background, and I want to see Christ glorified throughout the world. As for ES Williams book yes I have heard of it and read several reviews -Im afraid I wont be spending the 30 on a book which just seems to want to attack and tar everyone with the same brush. This is another attempt to pick a fight with another straw man. You then go to the other extreme and say that I am lumping every mega church together. Is this success? The truth is whether it is a mega church pastor in the US, or a small church pastor in Scotland, it is not OUR church, it is HIS. Stephen Furtick is his own brand and it seems it is a brand that sells well and pays well. [1] He has been the pastor of Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Sun Valley, California since February 9, 1969. Matt Chandler is an excellent example of how the gospel should be preached I cant comment on his lifestyle because I dont know it do you? [16][17], Central to MacArthur's theology is a very high view of scripture (the 66 books of the Protestant Bible). I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying. For me there is no doubt that some of Scotlands independent churches and ministries, need to be investigated re their finances..question is who does it?. The trouble is that because they have the money, the media and the power, they are able to have an influence far beyond their spiritual authority and gifts. Your lack of apology (at very least regarding your amazon remarks) has only served to highlight the arrogance and childishness that you displayed in your replies. There's some really helpful information in there. They are usually absorbed in religion for self-centered reasons. Given that you were speaking in the context of my remarks about Chandler, your comments were clearly a warning about him and a warning that his teaching was like a slow growing cancer. As for the scandal yes I was aware of it. Citing Dallas Baptist because you knew a young man who went there. ", Grace Community Church parishioners make their way to Sunday service in Sun Valley on Sept. 13, 2020. I have nothing to be jealous of as regards Furtick. L ast week, John MacArthur celebrated 50 years in the pastorate at a conference at his congregation Grace Community Church. For all who oppose success in serving Jesus Christ!!! Chandler only eventually took action as the wheels were about to fall off the Mars Hill bus and, sadly, only when great damage had already been done to the body of Christ. I think about it this way would I rather sell a million copies of my books with little fruit, or sell a few hundred of each and yet have those few hundred profoundly affect and change the lives of many? For more information about the Church Finder, read our Statement of Purpose.. If he is doing wrong it will come out in the wash but just to hate on a pastor because he has money is stupid. He went on to say, "I understand that Im a fifth cousin, and so its quite a distance but nonetheless we are related. Your comment about owning churches is actually ban on the mark. MacArthur responded, "Go home." These views raised controversy within American evangelicalism and were challenged in print by non-lordship dispensationalist theologians Charles Ryrie and Zane C. Hodges, who argued that MacArthur's ministry was teaching a form of works-based salvation. The point you made about Matt Chandler was that he does not live as a Christian (how can you know that? John MacArthur is pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. No pastor should be above reproach, there should be no untouchables in the church; even Peter was rebuked by Paul when it was necessary. Period. http://thewartburgwatch.com/?s=Matt+chandler&x=0&y=0 I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? [14] In 1986, he was made President of the new Master's Seminary. He states, "You must receive Jesus Christ for who He is, both Lord and Savior, to be truly saved (2 Peter 2:20). The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence." And if the thousands of baptisms represent thousands of people coming to Christ, how could one not rejoice? Its only your perception and I would deny it. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. 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